Hello everyone this is adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin strong hand bitcoin is the next big point value your wealth and book bitcoin one bitcoin equals one bitcoin offended by selling conviction deferral gratification we're gonna talk about that holder of last resort oh yeah hello my elite friends we've got the best guest in the space only this weekend bitcoin show and this week we've got a holder of last resort in the house block stream director of marketing neil would find is here what's up Neil welcome to the show man I am good thanks and thanks for inviting me on yeah I I'm really excited to have a real live block stream person here there's a lot of fun out there around the company that you work for I mean tell us a little bit about it it's it's not some FBI agent CIA and a same thing from what I can tell here I mean I've got a real employee here he's he's not conspiratorial or trying to take over the world people tell us what block streams all about to be honest I'm kind of surprised you haven't had a few of the other POC stream guys on before because they tend to be quite prominent people in the space but yeah it's something that we kind of face on a daily basis it's kind of always bubbling along particularly on forums like Reddit and there's quite a few people on Twitter too I mean I could put it down to two things one is that a lot of people at bog stream are Bitcoin orgies and they were very disparaging towards the big block because and the Bitcoin cash guys and then sort of subsequently the big bonus for you guys and I think that created a lot of bad blood and then later both of those projects failed quite miserably and continue to fail and I think quite a few people working at book stream have not been shy about kind of rubbing that in on social media and so I think it kind of encourages people to find whatever ammunition they can online to kind of try and potentially damage our business at least in their minds so yeah there's there's a lot of that kind of stuff going on yeah I mean sometimes people say things they get people angry and then those angry people they come back with wild ideas but you you didn't that was cool you said even your side of the you know is not perfect it's not perfect now were you a Bitcoin I don't want to call you a big boy maximalist but were you a huge Bigpoint ban before you started working at block stream or did that shape your mind at all so I've been working at the book stream for a year now but yeah I've been I've been a Bitcoin since 2014 I started messing around with big run in 2013 so like in the beginning I messed around with a few old coins I'll be absolutely honest but it didn't take that long for me to realize that Bitcoin was the only and serious gaming tank so yeah by the time I joined watched him I was authority add effect Maximus being at Bach stream pretty much this year yep and I want to say Sampson has been on the show before but I didn't it was so long ago now we didn't get into the fun aspects it was more of he was covering topics whatever the main topics of that week in Bitcoin was at that time so how does a person not yet before blocked I mean why did you choose to go in this direction to work in the field and is it you've got a marketing background I assume and I think this space needs so many more marketing people what would advice would you give people if they want to get a job in the space so answering the first question why I joined it's sort like I started in the industry in 2014 because I'd become so obsessed with Bitcoin I was absolutely certain that this was going to become a really important technology a really important revolution and that like for example the existing this is this is my thought process at the time the existing financial system has a lot of very wealthy people that are very successful and that this seems to be the new financial system of the future so this is like a good career move for me but I think after being in the industry for a few years so like there's still an element of that for sure but also you become a bit more ideological in your involvement with Bitcoin and you realize that it's actually an important project to succeed more broadly for society and I think there's there's a bit of that going on to an advice for people getting in the industry like I think what you said is spot-on right now there's a lot of very technical people a lot of geeky people and they're the kind of people that Bitcoin appeals to and I think there's a lot of room a lot of space for people that are good at marketing and people I get a business development and if very hard to find in general so for example we're looking for an a Content person to help us produce some ice at the moment and it's really difficult finding somebody that like kind of has that like that kind of those human skills to be able to write really nice engaging consumer friendly content but then also like understands this quite like deep hard tech which is still at the moment quite difficult to use yes or I'd say there's lots of space for and people with those kind of skills and should get involved if they have them by the way everyone Neal is linked to below everything we talked about in this video is basically linked to below check out the links section follow me on Twitter at Tech vault-tec HB alt now you see there's some ideological beliefs in here people really strongly believe in this I think you mentioned I know that when you're you mentioned the institutions institutions there they're all about the money does Bitcoin need the institutions to come into the space or I and you've tweeted about this so that's why I'm asking around this question here what's your take on institutions coming into the space should B be waiting for them breathlessly to save the world the pump the price are they not necessary so I think this kind of a common meme going around at the moment where people are saying things like okay so the next stage of bitcoins development requires the institutions to come and that's how we get like bitcoins price to the next level become adoption to the next level I don't think that's necessarily the case the tweet stone that you referenced I came from a conversation I was having with a good Bitcoin friend I was very surprised suggested that we'd see seen the end of the the days of these gigantic Bitcoin bull runs because now becomes a much more institutional game there's a lot more kind of corporate investors and they'll smooth the price out somehow and will not will not see these these kind of big bull runs anymore and one of the reasons who's saying that happens was because they take profit earlier and I think that's a perfect example of why that's why institutions will not drive this market and won't drive it for a long time to come because I mean the way institutions work is that they have shareholders and they're responsible to their shareholders and the shareholders tend to be pretty risk-averse and have very different goals they do look for short-term profits and what that results in is these institutions they may purchase Bitcoin but when they've made like any kind of decent amount of profit then they're going to sell their Bitcoin now if they're selling their Bitcoin it will perpetually be in that very kind of large group of people that are fighting over the the Bitcoin that are left and the Bitcoin that I left this this this amount is decreasing all of the time because what we have on the other side of the equation is people like you and me and kind of the the the the broader market of these kind of individual sovereign investors who are just buying up the Bitcoin is sitting on it they're like they're not selling for anything and I kind of call them Morpheus cordless after that famous Bitcoin me where Morpheus is like you're not going to need to sell these when when Bitcoin succeeds but what these individual investors are waiting for is the death of Fiat and like bit going to replace their dollar or that their pound or the euro and the institutions aren't doing that they're just looking for making some kind of shorter I'm generalizing of course I'm sure there's a few for example family officers that are probably thinking in kind of more generational terms but in general most the institutions are not there in it for they're in it for a fast book and that has a massive downside as well because it means when the price is doing crazy things like going down very quickly there are also some of the first people to sell because again they have responsibility to their shareholders who are more risk-averse and even if they're not more risk-averse the people managing these funds will feel like they're potentially they are and so they're going to be some of the first people to start panic selling and that's in direct contrast to the horrors of last resort who are just going to they've got a much higher risk tolerance you and I like probably spend a few years training our Hodel skills and I'm much more willing to wait a date and and keep on reducing that supply yeah we've got it it's like exactly yeah and like in addition to this like kind of compounding this problem is that institutions largely they like custodians they think custodians are okay and we know in Bitcoin that like for individuals custodians is definitely not a good move whether you're using an exchange or a custodial wallet or something like that I get at some point that centralization of risk is gonna go gonna go wrong you're gonna have an inside job or I'm somebody's going to go and hack or socially engineer and they're the big points that exist there and then even if none of that and if like the financial system starts to be threatened then like we get into a kind of like an endgame scenario who knows what I kind of like I thought East will do with all the big points sitting in these very kind of cause the hoody pots that the custodians and like just because you're or you're an institution doesn't mean you're not under threat of those kind of risks oh yeah I think like they also have that to content with it's kind of a hidden risk that they they're not factoring into the models Wow I like your take on a custodial the custodians here we're on the same same page there definitely control your own private key but so many people getting into the space are impulsive and they want to leave it wherever and they think they're used to the traditional ways the traditional system was someone else took care of your wealth for you so they're gonna be doing so many people opting into that but you've got you definitely identified many impulsive aspects aspects of this space and that will lead to the lots of volatility here and I do want to read your tweet out that we're referencing or one of them there are experienced bitcoiners that still think that the era of insane Bitcoin bull runs are behind us and that price will just increase steadily because the market is more mature or something work boy are they in for a surprise yeah I agree with that rear is going to be a roller coaster in people he just said it have a strong hand get ready for the roller coaster for for the various reasons that we just talked about now you came up with an interesting term sovereign retail investor a sovereign retail investor dig a little deeper explain that to us a little bit what you meant by that I'm just thinking of the term sovereign individuals which is a popularised by that book I'm mixing it with retail investors so right now Bitcoin is entirely driven by retail investors individuals seeing big coin for that their own personal savings and they they're either kind of very sovereign minded when they purchase the Bitcoin initially or they're buying it for the go to the moon get-rich-quick and then slowly if they manage to hold the big coins will kind of have their the right theology converted changed and they'll become more sovereign just through the act of holding big coin so I definitely fell in the latter category I bought my first bit but Bitcoin because I saw the price going up and I was very kind of Normie NDC when I first got into Bitcoin and it wasn't until I kind of enjoyed that because I bought in 2013 so I enjoyed that first Bull Run very early right and I got me extremely excited about Bitcoin so I was like why is this happening like what is this thing and that kind of sent me on like what people call the rabbit hole which is like not just about kind of bitcoins technology but it it necessarily involves a lot of economics and politics and the journeys felt going like I'm still learning things on a daily basis so yeah I think that's that essentially that's what a sovereign retail investor is is it's just the guys on the street regular people buying Bitcoin for themselves and then holding it until until until the end yeah I just questioned how independent some of these guys are how independent minded a lot of a lot of the people are who just buy it and then panic and flip maybe I'm making too many generalizations about that maybe they are independent have strong hands that's fair enough I think the the majority of Bitcoin holders probably fall into that category and I think a lot of people are just looking forward to getting rich quick but that there's kind of a conversion process going on there and the ranks of these sovereign re typical investors is definitely going like I said just through just through holding Bitcoin and kind of learning a bit more about it people become more sympathetic to that to that worldview so like yeah and the people are backing up the Bitcoin America people are kind of taking Bitcoin out of the supply and everybody else like institutions and the the impulsive people that you mentioned are buying and selling and the kind of the pool that they're interacting with the pill the bitcoins that they're interacting with is decreasing like on a daily basis now I've got another quote here if it works is the trigger for the next major enlightenment it forces normal people to think in ways they never had to before now I do agree with that it does force certain normal people to think in ways that never had to before but I don't think most people were ready to get that deep down in their thinking process and for that reason there are a lot of people out there that believe in hyper Bitcoin ization that one day Bitcoin will be the the money of the world I don't believe it will be III believe it'll just be the the store of value the the money of the world for just people who are willing to think what's your again so a major enlightenment amongst people who are able to be enlightened so did you believe in hyper Bitcoin ization what's your take yeah I think I believe when I have a conversation I think there's two kind of processes at work one is the kind of inevitable collapse of the contemporary financial system which we know it to be extremely flawed and full of risk and getting worse every year so that's going on and that will lead to an inevitable requirement for some replacements and then at the same time we've got kind of the development of Bitcoin the longer it survives the more confident we can be that it it will continue to survive and also the technology is improving books are getting found and repaired I think as well people are learning that kind of separate like sent money is and Austrian economics are becoming more and more popular iced and I can't see that trend reversing or kind of blue towing anytime soon so I think would be very difficult for a replacement fee at to compete with big coin when things start to go wrong because people will be very distrustful of the old models and they'll have this new model which will be extremely successful by that point to to move over to so yeah and I buy into the hype of Bitcoin ionization idea I don't think I mean it's difficult for anybody to predict these kind of things right we're all just using conjecture so I it's also believable to me that it would just be the domain of individuals that are kind of sovereign minded freedom minded and wanted to avoid the existing kind of of authoritative systems that are the alternative but I think the big colonization is pretty likely the future we shall see I am excited for the future the new systems people opting out of the old system all sorts of innovations now speaking speaking of innovations and I'm gonna go back to block stream a lot of times people and you get asked this question we all get asked these questions what if the air that goes down Bitcoin is worthless oh wait a second block stream is working the block stream satellite tell us about what happens if the internet goes down tell us about this block street satellite yes so I think it's a common no coin an argument that you hear that if Bitcoin succeeds and the government's will just switch off the internet and they're like we've got you but unfortunately like there's already been a lot of people thinking about this problem block stream either the team are budgeting being one of one of those groups and there's already solutions out there that could allow a Bitcoin to continue to operate in internet bests environments so yeah blocks roofs satellite essentially is a satellite network so for satellites that are orbiting the planet yeah remember we're operating in the planet at the same speed as the Earth spins so they're always in the same place do you think we're asleep geosynchronous that's the word sorry yeah and they're receiving booked booked Bitcoin blockchain data from teleports based around their planet and their beam this Bitcoin blockchain data down across pretty much all of the populated areas in the world so you've got a small area of Eastern Europe and the Middle East which is not getting caught by those signals but everywhere else this the anyway there's a population of people they're receiving the the Bitcoin blockchain now to receive those signals and all you need is some really standard equipment which can be bought for probably under like 100 120 dollars you need a satellite dish which is exactly the same as you use for receiving TV signals you need a computer and the computer requirements very law you could use the Raspberry Pi or a rock 64 and then also something called an STR which is a little bit of hardware USB stick which you put into your computer and it decodes the the signals coming from coming from the satellite and what that allows you to do is operate a full Lord anywhere on the planet without the internet now like it solves only one part of using the using Bitcoin equation so you got a full load now you can verify any incoming transactions and you can you can know for certain that you've received a transaction however what you can't do is send a transaction out because you need to get that transaction to the miners so that they can add it to the blockchain and store böck stream satellite is intended to be combined with multiple of the technologies so you can use things like mesh networks there's an integration already with Cortana which will allows you to basically send a Bitcoin transaction data from your node to another person with a core tenet or another the persons report na you could do a maximum of three hops and then the person at the end and they have a few options they can if they have if if they've got an internet connection they can send that to the internet and then it can get mine done to the blockchain or you could use SMS to send it to another internet relay to get it onto the Internet technically you could actually like to send it directly to our minor and make it like edit the bhaktir themselves put like that wouldn't be particularly scalable so one thing to bear in mind is that these internet free solutions I kind of been intended to be used in a localized manner that kind of internet minimized because at some point you really need somebody connected to the Internet to get that transaction theater to to might know which is online but yeah the satellite is extremely important for these low internet on the way of Internet environment because the Bitcoin blockchain requires a lot of bandwidth like serious a lot of bandwidth and these mesh network solutions they have a very low bandwidth support so the satellite signal is received passively it can download a lot of did I think the full 24 last 24 hours of blocks are broadcast on a broadcast four times a day so that's kind of like the the bandwidth here you can achieve with these things actually you can achieve more we're just kind of the package that we've got the satellite network so yeah that's that's essentially how it worked quite quite an innovation over there coming from the block screen people contributing so much to this space people much respect to them no no more fighting than people come on so we're talking about innovations that block streams working on how about the liquid network what's this all about this liquid Nick right I've had I forgot who someone tried to explain on here before but let's get it straight from the horse's mouth liquid all right so I spent most of my time on liquid so I could talk to this quite well so I think there's a lot of misconceptions about why liquidities it's probably almost it's something that we need to improve our communications on for sure basically it's a Bitcoin sidechain intended specifically for exchanges and traders it's meant for trading applications and what what we mean by a site in essentially it's it's another blockchain but instead of having miners they replaced by something called a federation and a federation it's fifteen exchanges they each have hardware a piece of hardware called an HSM and these hsn's in a round-robin style are signing the blocks in the network and they're essentially operating operating this this site in and it's a slightly more centralized model we're just like pipe we're very transparent and open about but that brings a lot of advantages because it allows more efficient one more efficient transactions so you can make transactions more faster but also it allows us to and deploy new technologies on on Bitcoin that perhaps would take like decades to get onto the main protocol so for instance liquid has confidential transactions which is a technology also developed as bog stream which is a really cool privacy tech which allows all of the users of the blockchain to transact with each other while hiding the type of asset that they're transacting with and also the amount of the transaction the amount of the asset that they Trent transacting with so all you can see is funds that moved from this address to that address what you don't know how much or what what has gone there and the the the psycheon still retains all of the verifiability so you know that there's no kind of inflation going on there and so the cool thing about the sidechain is what it allows you to do is move your Bitcoin from the mansion to the side chin in a verifiable manner so you basically lock up a Bitcoin on the other mention and then it's released on the side chain and this process is called a peg in and once this bitcoin is on the sidechain it can move around very very quickly using all of the confidential transaction technology will soon be introducing and simplicity to liquid as well which is kind of a watching and programming language and so allows you to do some really really like kind of expressive stuff with smart contracts so you've got this Bitcoin flying around and then at any point you can choose to peg that Bitcoin out and it releases the Bitcoin on the on the media and anybody can run a full load on on liquid on the liquid side chain so you can't in any blocks but you can verify that like all everything is working as it's intended to be working so you can verify for instance that every single Bitcoin on the liquid network is backed up one to one with a Bitcoin on the Bitcoin network so you know there's no inflation and you know that your your liquid bitcoins can be pegged out to the Bitcoin and then in addition to this cool interaction with Bitcoin what you can also do on on liquid is issue your own assets so you can create new tokens for anything that you want and they they they native to the liquid network they're kind of different in nature to the Bitcoin and the liquid network because you're completely dependent on the issuer of each of these assets so it's not trustless it's not really just minimized it's a you're completely dependent on whoever's issued that asset but what it does allow you to do is do really cool things like atomic swaps between Bitcoin and those assets and you can still use all the same kind of technologies that we use a Bitcoin like multi-sig time locks that kind of thing and like I think a lot of people are worried that liquid will get used for shit coining including myself I think it probably will happen and there's nothing we can do about that it's an open network anybody can issue an asset as long as they've got a liquid for Lord but like I think it could be used for more kind of less ethically challenged projects that are used in the trading industry such as and stable coins and security tokens as well which a lot of people at they haven't really taken off yet but a lot of people are talking about kind of being a new kind of thing and security talking since stable coins I'm not like I mean I'm sure there will be a few scams on built on those as well but and they're not necessarily that scamming are they they're just based on existing real world assets and we've just kind of talk nice them to transfer around on on the network this is very very interesting how many people are actually using it now and what are your projections of when it's going to really be used and so we have a small number of low level of activity on the liquid network right now it's definitely not taking off in any big way yet I think one thing that has to happen before that that can happen is we need more exchange integrations to go live so at the moment the main exchanges that are available are a bit for next the rock trading side shift and coin it as well we just had a coin up recently and really what this technology is good for is for example if you're an arbitrage trader you want to be moving funds around exchanges faster than your competition so you can take advantage of trading differentials trading opportunities faster than the other traders and for them to be able to do that they're going to need more exchanges that have liquid Bitcoin in liquid Bitcoin 8 and as well as like things like we have like tether on the liquid network as well people need those those integrations to your life so um we have a bit of a chicken and egg problem there I'll be honest but we do have a number of exchanges they're working on integrations right now and I think once they start a call life will have more traders and experimenting with liquid and driving a bit more activity as well one thing that like I started saying I got this from Sampson recently is liquid is kind of a bit of a an insurance policy for the the trading industry for the next big bull run so like I said I don't think we've seen the end of bull runs for a long time yet and when when the next one comes a lot of people are saying it's gonna be coming after the next harvoni the the the Bitcoin network is gonna get it clogged up people have like tether on like etherium and omni and stuff like this like these these networks are going to get clogged up it's gonna be very difficult for people to move their their funds around all of the different exchanges for trading applications and liquid would allow people to continue moving it but it would allow this spice to fall it would allow people to continue moving their funds around the exchanges to like be able to still continue buying and selling in that like high-pressure environment and like these things can go on for two three months right I remember making a few transaction with myself like $3000 $40

00 back in the last bull run so this is kind of an alternative to that Wow this'll or perhaps keep the people out that we're saying Oh everything's so slow I can't move it it's too expensive this might help good point and I one thing I wanted to say at first when you were describing this liquid network I was Heather but in fact it's going to help them it appears to me and I mean it's it's the obvious platform for the stable coins to you issue on like they don't need all of the like hard core decentralization that comes with Bitcoin they don't need that they need more efficiency and liquid provides that with still like some very very strong security benefits and in addition to that like so right now like if you're a wheel or an institution you're making a large transaction you're an icing it on a public network every time you make a trade so people could be front run laws and you have people monitoring the blockchain like trading on on the information that they get from that and with liquid nobody knows that stuff is going on so yeah it's really as well like you get all of the I'm kind of making doing a bit of an advert here like the the another advantage is that like liquid is based on elements and elements is based on Bitcoin and so are you getting really really strong and multi-sig strong time locks like kind of technology that people are very confident works and I won't break for example I can etherium smart contract these things do what they're supposed to do so you can do like a lot of interesting applications on top of that as well and the atomic swaps being a good example one thing that you brought up that's very interesting is that some of the larger whales that are making a lot of trades so somewhat privatized people won't be able to see exactly what they're doing alright you go on that subject matter are there any second layer privacy solutions that people are working on over there a block stream now but you can talk about the research team will definitely have at least one or two things going on with that I can't I can't speak to them you'll have to get Andrew Pereira I'm not sure he can heat and give you a rundown on some interesting privacy technology are you are you personally about privacy and stuff I mean in terms do you think Bitcoin needs to become more private right now is it is it a lot of people are talking we need a second safe Slayer solution right now for privacy yes definitely concerned about bitcoins privacy in East it needs to be improved I think matter elf rate for instance recently was saying that it's possible so like within existing technologies coin joins with savvy samurai it's possible to transact the Bitcoin privately already but it requires a lot of work and a lot of learning so these kind of these solutions these ideas need to start getting integrated for the average user to take advantage of them yeah I think as well they'll be more kind of demand which will create more developments on the privacy side once we start to see more kind of down sides of people not using Bitcoin in a private way so like people getting attacked mugged kidnapped things like that or some kind of stated interventions like IRS checking people based on dr ender I think once those kind of things start happening like all of a sudden there'll be some really fast developments orangutan big going to computers yes the pressure will be on to figure out the situation once it gets really bad it was there something else you were going to say that I kind of interrupted you before I didn't mean to break her chain of thought I don't know there's something you meant to say okay um if you did I've already forgotten that okay I've got a question on a current event I wanted to hear your take on on Libra and do you think that'll get more people into Bitcoin eventually do you think Libra is actually going to happen I mean I wrote a few tweets on this as well like I really brought pretty much immediately after he was getting launched I haven't dove particularly deeply into how it works somebody was telling me the other day that the technology is cool and I'm not particularly interested in the technology I'm more interested in like the application what what it's doing and I think it's totally unrelated to Bitcoin there's no way in hell that any kind of authorities you can although Facebook to do anything that skirts regulations it'll be a pure FinTech product it'll be part of the system if it ever gets launched it'll it will not have anything to do a Bitcoin it will not be useful for people trading Bitcoin because of all the controls that will surround it perhaps like for the average person it'll care and if be like it'll get them used to the fear of like a digital currency but to be honest I think people are already there when it comes to digital currencies for example I just live in China and everybody's using WeChat I hear that's just basically digital currency and a mobile wallet I used revolute like a great service I mean like as far as FinTech goes again that kind of like comes across this digital currency so yeah yeah I can't see people getting into it that much as well like one of the massive attractions of Bitcoin that we can't get away from is like number goes up like people are in it for the pump and as much as we try to like say like people are in for the technology and the freedom and stuff like a very large part of this movement is that the potential for people to get rich from holding it like that's not happening with Libre like there's no price appreciation opportunities there people are only going to be buying it so that they can use it at certain merchants and stores like is there going to be that much demand for people to spend at certain stores with a certain currency like all very questionable to me I you had a tweet about that yeah that's a that's part of the interest that when fiat price goes up hey man you're not hey I believe in one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin but not everyone not everyone could be like that people were used to the way things have worked in a while and they want to make a quick buck a long buck who knows what they good point with uh with Libre you're not exactly gonna be able to speculate on it from at least the way it's been defined me it's it's it's not gonna go up yeah it's supposingly like on this top on this topic like you asked me earlier when the reasons why I joined block stream so I I worked at all care coin I'm interested the 14 after that I start mr dark koremitsu with Richard Ben's Berg who's also now working a blog stream and then we we got a quite head by wire so remit see my will cross-border payment companies that use Bitcoin in the middle if you convert I can the the source currency to the destination currency they were used for business payments but having worked at ok coin remit see and wire you you're interacting with Fiat and as soon as you touch fear is any kind of business you get caught in this kind of regulatory web and it's it particularly difficult when you're working in the cryptocurrency space because pretty much everybody's business is global you need to be able to service global demand and that means you're not only interacting with the regulations at home you're also interacting with the regulations in various different other countries and these can sometimes kind of conflict with each other and it becomes an absolute nightmare and I found like over time I was getting increasingly frustrated with the fact that I was spending by over half of my day dealing with regulatory issues and I was working in things like business development and marketing I heard that shouldn't have been factoring me into kind of idea like that should be a compliance departments they look like everybody is is affected by it at every level of the company and it make at least you making all sorts of stupid decisions business decisions that he wouldn't have made otherwise and just gets you down and like at the moment for example payments which the industry that written while were working in there in the contemporary FinTech arena these are regulatory games their regulatory industries not technology industries so everybody is do this kind of regulatory arbitrage or automating certain regulatory processes and that's what I build these like great FinTech products like revolute for instance but if we move to a new Bitcoin financial system that returns everything to a question of technology like regulation or factoring not at all or very very little and so all of these kind of skills and this knowledge and this experience that you build up we were just kind of pretty much the majority of your day in like and navigating regulation becomes completely useless in this kind of Bitcoin future so if you're if you really strongly believe in kind of hyper Bitcoin ization it means that like by joining these kind of fear interaction businesses you're going to be wasting a lot of your time and developing skills that are going to be a dead end in the future so like that was one of the big drivers for me joining Bob stream there there are like pure technology company they provide technology to companies that are regulated so like it's still it's still there and it's almost impossible to ask it given how easy it is to regular businesses right now but then it's certainly minimized I can't remember what theirs started this but essentially that that's oh yeah sorry the Libra thing Libra will be in that category they're going to be wholly regulated and so they're going to spend most of their time kind of like bending to the whims of various officials and various countries and to make things work they'll only be able to roll like one country at a time they don't have to be our service though a world at the same time and the Bitcoin futures not like that like in the future like Bitcoin services would be based in Bitcoin friendly jurisdictions and they'll be able to service the entire world and they're not gonna have to worry about all of these are various different regulations excellent points found out like button people I've got a question about the current situation in Bitcoin which takes some people are used to making investments in the traditional the traditional system and getting interest or doing loans with their at their Fiat relying on third parties what do you uh what do you think of the trend in the big points pace of people trying to do similar things people loaning out their big coin and getting interest on their Bitcoin with what's your take on that right now given current technology yeah I think the the the rate at which bitcoins price is historically increased and the rate of kind of adoption of developments Bitcoin suggests that that will probably continue at least I expect it to continue I see no reason to kind of maximize that further by lending a Bitcoin 4/4 or interest in particular I think some of the interest bearing options at the moment I'm not going to name any names I have seen kind of rumors flying around Twitter of like have had questionable their practices are whether they could like so if these coins are being lent out they're probably being used to short and cryptocurrencies and like if we enter a bull market like how sustainable is that going to be yeah so I did to two things one like there's it's got to be high risk and two I just seen normal need to do that given how how successful Bitcoin has been to this point so I wouldn't personally I wouldn't touch another temp of white ball but then at the same time like risk risk can bear rewards or like if people are willing to engage with that and know what they're doing then like fat people in my hope will work so I know like I definitely have friends that have engaged in lending on exchanges so some of the exchanges provide p2p lending options and have done very well out of it and hasn't collapsed on them it was sustainable for a few years at least so and maybe it'll work out all right yeah I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole either now I'm like how you said that I've actually said the same lines before now Bitcoin the 18 million Bitcoin was just a mind yay but at the same time we have some concern trolling out there I would say for people wondering about the well could we expand the the amount of Bitcoin in the future is 21 million really a hard limit you and I both live through the block size debate I am pretty confident that the next big prominent debate that will try to split Bitcoin and we'll end up in a four we'll be will be this the the limit the limit what's your take on on that D do you foresee this ending in a very similar be cash type situation so yes I think not from the current cohort of people that are pushing for it I don't think they have nearly as much support as they potentially think they have at the moment however it's the obvious attack vector that Bitcoin will probably face for the rest of its existence so like let's say this is a thousand two thousand year old technology like we're gonna see multiple efforts to introduce inflation in Bitcoin because it's the easiest ridicule and I have very little patience for the current crop of people that are kind of promoting very hard and repeatedly for an inflation on Bitcoin I think they have their own biases that they are not willing to admit to there is a reason why they keep on coming back to this topic when it's not a pressing issue the security of the coin is not under question at the moment there's a reason why they keep on coming back to it and like I find that the people that promoting inflation in Bitcoin and kind of Concerned trolling about the security model are often the kind of people that perhaps of cleaning Bitcoin for a long time and had not completely bought into the kind of cyclic Punk and libertarian Austrian economic anarchic worldview that like a lot of other big corners of like either bought into when it got into Bitcoin or what kind of camera into after being a bigger point for a while they tend to be the people that have resisted that the most and I find that very fascinating that like inflation is very kind of stay just past time and then these people seem to have failed to have shed some of those kind of world views after being a Bitcoin for one I and they keep on pushing like the repeatedly pushing inflation finding I okay so that angle didn't work okay well have it this problem like maybe we need inflation for that yeah so I'm kind of a very question and like when you kind of confront them about it they're always just kind of just asking questions I'm just like if we can't chance these ideas like like we're just living in this dogmatic kind of industry and things will get dangerous because everybody's got this guy and a groupthink but like they never willing to I'm very clear about my views about Bitcoin in it I'm like I have biases of my own and I'm very explicit about them but these people will not kind of commit to any of their any of their ideas and I find that a little bit you posted this as well so yeah it's interesting you don't think I'll be the current crop that'll be successful yeah I I would agree almost that there will be a future prominent person who is very Pro Bitcoin that will switch to this inflationary Bitcoin and that will trigger it will take a change of a prominent person to really spark the next be cash type of situation so it's just something for people to review and repair for yeah I have like lots more people entering the industry lots of charismatic people that like bring lots of like great ideas yeah and I don't know how those people are going to kind of change the conversation in the future so I think it's definitely something that's there gonna happen like it the to is to screw around with Bitcoin right change the block size add some inflation and like those are they're just gonna be it's gonna be an endless battle like we're not gonna like kind of finalize that there's not gonna be any full stop it's it's gonna continue and like there are always going to be powers that have something to gain from Bitcoin failing we just gotta kind of be vigilant and teach our kids to be vigilant and grant grandkids yeah it's a hard limit people 21 million all right meal would fine we have reached the end of the show it has been a pleasure do you have any conclusionary remarks anything you wanted to add any subject matters that were left off current events you wanted to bring up promotions anything the floor is yours I think we've covered everything it's a that was a really good catch at I think if anybody's interested in finding more about liquid and definitely check out the bottom side we have quite a lot of new content there these days and yeah I hope the hope is a chance to be on the show again and doing a great job with the show well thank you very much I do want you to come back on the show it has been awesome his Twitter is below follow him really good tweets out there very inspirational tweets definitely a holder of last resort I love having the whole there's a last resort on here alright everybody on adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister remember to subscribe the channel like the video share this video pound that like button bang that bell button if this show is airing on friday which most of you this week in bitcoin shows do but we might be changing it up i'd like to wish everyone a shabbat shalom we do that this week in bitcoin show every week usually on Fridays so tune in here every friday every day every day because you never know what you're going to get here saturday is usually the beyonce point show a new show every day everybody have a great time thank you neil again see you guys later bye bye